WTF? Pavement & La Snacks? I Call Bullshit! My Rant At PR & Media
This might come across a bit offensive, maybe even harsh, but to be quite honest, I’m pretty offended by what I received in my email today. By no means am I trying to discredit a band for what they do, but there are ways to get across your message, your music, your art, and some of the avenues that are used in this process are guided by people who are only doing so because you gave them a check. You paid them money and by doing so, you might believe that they are operating for you and your best interest. Not true. PR companies are a necessity, yes, and PR companies are effective at times, but they won’t generate more fans for your band or make you a better band. That’s your job. In the interest of keeping this post from spiralling into a lengthy discussion of the role that PR companies should and can play in today’s music enviroment I direct you to a couple of good articles: The Golden Rule of Blog PR: 12 Music Bloggers Set It Straight & The Ugly Man Behind The Curtain in Music Publicity
Curious as to where I’m going with this and what set me off this morning?
“The blissfully slacked-out La Snacks would have found good company in the mid-’90s sandwiched on a Pavement/Archers of Loaf bill, but even Pavement rarely wrote songs as simultaneously snarky and reverent…” – The Onion
This is the quote that was included in the title and the body of the email that I received today. The Pavement reference caught my attention because I believe that they were one of the most relevant and influential bands of their time. I’m a fan, and I’ve been a fan for years. They are one of those bands that were manufacturing music so special during their time, that I held them at the highest level of respect for years. They were doing something that almost no other band in the 90’s were doing, and they did it well. They were quirky, musically and lyrically, and they put together a sound that encompassed that vibe within simple elements of rock. Sure the live show was a complete disaster at times, but when they were on, they were untouchable. Pavement were one of the greatest indie-rock bands of the 90’s. Period.
Now the other problem I have with this is the fact that the writer from the Onion is brave enough to compare La Snacks to Pavement or even make reference to them sharing company. For one, I’m pretty sure that the guys in La Snacks weren’t but wee ones when Pavement were at their prime, and I would venture to bet that the writer responsible for this quote probably was still staring puberty in it’s ugly eye as well. I could be wrong, and will stand to be corrected if anyone cares to do so. Maybe it’s me, but I find it offensive that a “journalist” would even dare to make such a comparison. Not just with the Pavement/Archers of Loaf reference, but with any previously successful band. I understand the pains of trying to obtain a sense of understanding the content of what you might be engaging and translating it, but this is pure laziness and carelessness. And the fact that the PR company decided to use it as a selling point, tells me that the PR company has little or no interest in the band at all. They are getting paid and that’s all that matters.
When the people that are selling the music to us in whatever form, press, publicity, and what not, don’t care about the artist and their vision, that’s when we fail the artist. I say WE, because I’m a part of this process. I write to sell a product, I book to sell a product, I email to sell a product, I talk to sell a product, and I believe in that product 100% and understand how much that product deserves a little attention. You may not completely agree with what I’m trying to sell you, but it’s an honest sell, and if you are smart enough, you’ll understand it’s value.
Now you be the judge:
MP3> Pavement ‘Zurich Is Stained’ Slanted and Enchanted
MP3> Pavement ‘Elevate Me Later’ Crooked Crooked Rain
MP3> Pavement ‘Rattled By The Rush’ Wowee Zowee
MP3> Pavement ‘Black Out’ Wowee Zowee
And now…
MP3> La Snacks ‘Kristin Was A Meteorologist’
MP3> La Snacks ‘The Circle Argument’
La Snacks Newfangled is out now on Foolish Boy Records. Irony.
Isn’t the Onion a satirical newspaper/blog that prides itself on being a “fake news” organization. You should give their PR dude extra props for understand the publication, its offensive nature, and dark humor, that produced something so sacrilege you blogged about it. I have never heard of La Snacks, but after today I will think of more than Cheetos. Score. But… if this wasn’t intended for “the Onion” Onion then what douches.
Actually, the entertainment portion of the paper doesn’t follow the same standards as what the paper is known for printing. It is, what one would assume to be, a straight forward journalistic approach to providing information on music, movies, and the arts.
hmm. i don’t agree with your age argument when talking about pavement’s music. any 17 yr old or 35 yr old can listen to pavement now for the first time and like it or love it. I never was a huge fan of pavement, however, I know that they had a huge impact of some folks. Most rock music is derivative of something else anyway, good or bad. I think it’s very honorable for la snacks to have been compared to and described as even better than Pavement. I’m not going to say I agree with the onion, but if the writer for the onion actually truly believes that, there’s a good chance that other’s may as well. But rant away, you have your place to speak your mind and so does the onion.
I say if I were in the la snacks camp, i’d want to use that quote all day long. Someone will notice it. you did.
I agree with the fact that music defies any age barrier in the context of appreciation, but when relevance comes into play, you have to have experienced the time in which it was..extremely relevant. You pick a band and compare them to Nirvana, Sonic Youth, or the Pixies, and try to justify your comparison or even claim that they have done better? You are asking for failure.
I am 29
the youngest person in our band is 26 the oldest is 30 we all remember very well the heyday of pavement. I remember watching cut your hair when I was fourteen is that old enough.
Is it maddening to me that we get compare to pavement all the time yes. Is there anything we can do about it no. Is it fanatic’s fault no. We sent them the press we have.
9o% of the press we have gotten has something about pavement in it. We used to try to fight it but what is the use people are going to do it anyway. We got the press in the onion because we sent them over first cd. It had nothing on it about pavement on are old press release at the time they made the connection.
Honestly at the time he made the review I had never listen to archers of loaf and the original members of our band at the time weren’t fans of pavement. Not to say we don’t think they are great band but we prefer early nineties bands like Sebadoh, The Afghan Whigs, Teenage fanclub, guided by voices, blur, husker du(although I know I am to young to like them) or for god sakes the pixies. But the press keeps on comparing us to them so what in the hell are we suppose to do.
The point is this is a press, the problem it we know you all feel that pavement was the greatest band on earth. So people when they review us or peel or any band that has distortion in their guitars you compare us to pavement and if it’s a little weird you compare them to sonic youth. If you compare it favorably to pavement if it’s bad then you compare (like you just did) you compare unfavorably to pavement Just by the way and I am old enough to remember this like pavement was compared with the fall. You guys could write about how great bandwagonesque, gentlemen, or sugar’s copper blue is but you decided on your gods.
The last thing is how you question bands work ethic. We work really hard you can ask anyone who knows me personally how hard I work to get fans, shows and press. Most bands do or they don’t stick around for long. I always think it is funny for a group most of whom are not in bands anymore because it was to hard. (not to say that you are I don’t presume to know you history) Attack people who are still trying, we are doing pr because we going on a tour we booked to support the record we paid for. I love to pr myself and do a lot pr but I can do it to level I want because I have a job.
You don’t like our band but you wrote about us why was that again? If we had no pavement review would you have written about us. I guess at the end of the day being compare to pavement in a good way is positive thing. I can help what Sean O’Neil writes but I am glad he like us. As for fanatic they use the press that we gave them. It may be our fault, It may be your fault, it may be the world’s fault but it’s not their fault.
Robert
Robert-
First off, this as you might perceive, is not about your band. It’s about the entities involved in supporting your band and their faults. There’s a system that is flawed, and it’s doing your band a disservice. The system can work, and does work, but as with any profit driven entity, greed besets the interest or care of those it claims to support. You are in control of your art and have chosen to allow the PR company to represent you in this manner. I’m sorry if I cannot sit idly by and accept some feeble attempt to convince me of something by a PR company who obviously has no personal interest in your art.
Secondly, I don’t think that Pavement is the greatest band in the world. I like them, understand their contribution, and appreciate what they brought to indie-rock. Sebadoh, Afghan Whigs, and Sugar also share that place in my memory and heart along with Pavement.
My point was, to bring to light the entities involved in this industry who are doing a disservice to the individuals like yourself, who deserve an honest approach. We’re all in the same that music drive us,it makes our hearts beat, it keeps us running, but when we start to stray away from the truth and honesty of what we believe for personal gain, we compromise our integrity.
I’m sorry that your band was the subject of this, and wish no ill intention towards what you and your bandmates do. You do something that I don’t and that’s commendable in itself.
Michael I really don’t think this is about my band either. Honestly this is our second time working with this pr firm. They a good job on our first record so we use them again. They let us work out our own budget, they have been nothing but good to us. It is true we pay them for a service if they don’t do a good job we won’t hire them again.
I just think the press should look in the mirror. Do port o’ brien, school of seven bells who get written about on this blog and every other blog have pr firms hell yeah, managers of course they do.
Bands and pr companies can’t help the press they get we get a ton of pavement press. So they lead with that they are not using us they are just pushing our band in the way they think is best. Maybe they are right maybe they are wrong but I don’t think it’s fair to question their motives.
Of course they get paid they do a service which thankless, with press core each one has a different set rules you suppose to follow (we started mentioning bands we sound like in our bio because we had a couple magazines tell us it helps them with the pile cd they get each month), bands and managers who want the moon, and don’t even get me started on the Radio. They should get paid and if they do a good job I will pay them again. Cause I have a day job and I can’t do it. I just think that pr fims are the symthpon not the problem. Press, band, consumers, the dying radio and labels we don’t look for art we have it feed to us and as long as that is true we will need pr firms.
Again I have no hard feelings toward you I have meet you before and you seem like a nice guy. I am good friends with one of your favorite local bands ume and I think they are great. But they get compare to sonic youth all the time to it is just the unfortunate way it works.
I really not trying to be dishonest with our music but I can’t change things that are out of my control. All I can do is try
Robert
Robert-
No hard feelings here as well.
We could do this for days, but no more in this forum.
If you would like to discuss further, lets meet for coffee or a beer. You know how to reach me.
And keep trying. That’s all we can really do.
Hi all — good to see so much talk about La Snacks. Obviously, we used a quote from the Onion that we thought would draw attention to the record, and that is what’s happening, so great. We endeavor to get folks to listen and we respect their opinions after they do — good or bad. We believe in this band and that’s why they are on our roster. Have a nice holiday weekend — Josh
I’d just like to say that regardless of who gets compared to who and all that jazz, if you read a press email that says a certain band sounds like mid-’90s indie rock then you’re automatically going to think of all the bands that have been listed. So why not just say they’re like Pavement, Sebadoh, etc?
Honestly, it seems like the best (and quickest?) way to grab someone’s attention. Is it a bit lazy? Yes. But, again, if you tell some random person that La Snacks is blissfully slacked out mid-90s indie rock then 95% of the time they’re going to respond with “Oh, like Pavement?”
Hardcore music nerds never want to deal with stuff like this (seriously, if I had a dollar for every lame PR email I get…), but these things are going out to a huge range of folks – some of which are not as savvy. It is just how things works.
That’s all.
BTW, La Snacks are good friends of mine AND I like this blog. So I favor neither one of you! HA! I just like talking.
Double BTW, Kristin Was A Meteorologist doesn’t even sound like Pavement! It’s early Cursive – remember those 7″ that were re-released on the Differences Between Houses And Homes? That’s right, I just re-caparisoned. I believe I’ve won. Eat your heart out, Onion.
no press is bad press. i happen to be the oldest member of la snacks, and the only real Pavement fan in the band, and i have only been in the band for about 9 months.
my other band, transmography, (name drop) plays with la snacks regularly and we have toured together and i was a fan of their music so when they needed a new drummer i was glad to sign up. So La Snacks gets compared to some great 90’s indie rock bands, and transmography gets referenced because of a metal pole. haha. either way, for every person that loves your art, someone will dislike/hate it equally, otherwise, it is ineffective.
I feel, if you want to reach an audience you have to reach them anyway you can. I have spent the last 6 years in Transmography touring and booking and doing PR and loading and repairing equipment and sweating(profusely) and having the time of my life and NOTHING that anyone says in press or in public or in private, or even to my face can take any of that away.
Robert busts his ass, and I know because we have talked about how those sacrifices affect both of our personal lives.
None of us can do this forever, nor will we want to, but we can’t waste any time defending our art. it is what it is. there is an audience for anything, just ask my friend jimmy with the metal pole.
btw i am also a fan of this blog, and of course, i like my band. i just wanted to chime in since i am the old wiseman. ha
I’m the youngest member in the band and I like Pavement! But mostly I just wanted the last word ; )
Hey Michael-
Sean from The Onion here. Think we met recently at The Dears show? If so, you can attest yourself that I was a bit past puberty when Pavement were in their heyday (not that your “you weren’t even old enough to like them when they were around” argument has much relevance to this discussion, anyway).
So… Sorry if I offended you by referencing one of your (and my!) favorite bands, but as much as I also dislike it when critics resort to “this thing sounds like that thing,” you really have to put this quote into some context. This was not intended as a sales pitch or even a proper review. It was written nearly two years ago as part of a 120-word show preview for three (at the time) relatively new bands. In this case, by using the shorthand example of some apocryphal Pavement/Archers Of Loaf bill, I felt like the reader would know exactly what they would be getting from a somewhat unknown entity–that even if La Snacks isn’t a Pavement sound-alike, fans of the style of ’90s indie music they helped to popularize would be intrigued enough to check them out. And clearly it was effective, because I’ve since had it parroted back to me about two dozen times by the band itself and its publicist (who recently sent me a link to this article without even being aware that I was the one who wrote it). Does it represent the pinnacle of my critical abilities? Absolutely not. Does it honestly and enthusiastically evaluate the music on its own terms, and then translate it into evocative sound descriptors or pithy metaphors about its lyrical intent? Nope. To pretend that I strive for that on every piece of music journalism I produce, particularly when it comes to brief show previews, would be disingenuous. Sometimes I’m just looking to convey a mood or context in the short amount of space our print constraints will allow, and occasionally I’ll resort to just that sort of shorthand to do that. (Not to mention I produce 25 of these previews a week–in addition to features and restaurant picks, daily content for Decider, and articles for the national A.V. Club–so yes, sometimes a few corners end up getting cut.)
But really, let’s not pretend that it’s something that only I do, or even that it’s something you’re totally above–particularly in regards to your saying, “I find it offensive that a “journalist” would even dare to make such a comparison. Not just with the Pavement/Archers of Loaf reference, but with any previously successful band.” Really? Because I’m looking at your Gliss show preview right now, which reads, “The influences run rampant through the songs leaning heavy on the sounds of the late 80’s and early 90’s a la Jesus and Mary Chain, Blur, and even Joy Division.” Leaving aside for the moment that none of those bands sound anything alike (and that Ian Curtis was in the cold, cold ground long before the late ’80s), those are all previously successful bands you’re drawing comparisons to (and I’m pretty sure you were nowhere near puberty–or England, I’m guessing–when Joy Division was around). So let’s not be so quick to cast stones and put “journalist” in those mocking quotes, okay?
But really, I don’t want this to turn into some sort of tete-a-tete between you and me. Your article brings up a salient point about the way PR firms market their bands, and it’s one that I happen to agree with. After all, this isn’t the first time that some snippet of something I’ve written has taken on a life of its own and been used to sell a band, despite the fact that it was never intended as an official endorsement. I just don’t see why most of your argument seems to be attacking me as if I’ve committed some sort of unpardonable sin, or why you find the quote’s premise so offensive when it’s clearly something you’re guilty of as well. And look, you seem like a nice guy, and I know we have mutual friends, so hopefully *you* know I’m not replying out of anger here. I’m glad you have such strong feelings about music and the way it’s marketed, but this just seemed like an unfair, rather hyperbolic potshot–and I don’t exactly love having my journalistic abilities or work ethic called into question just because you disagree with me.
As the original/best drummer of this band (i heart you frizzy), I must say that these fools are lying. I listened to pavement up and down. Although that was back when being full of yourself wasn’t cool. And even more ironic is that I was the youngest of the band as we formed when I was 17…haha. We also had previous band names that were worse than this one (if you can imagine that). So who gives a crap. I honestly miss when La Snacks didn’t…maybe that’s why I left. You guys have talent, but you depend too much on these fools to tell you that.
Frazier…you might be their last hope
I just now read all this, and this particular group of messages was fantastic to read. La Snacks and Pavement are great.
hey OG- just don’t dimebag me!!! and don’t sabotage any more shows! haha
looking back on this whole discussion, i realize we shouldn’t be reading about ourselves. we should be writing songs!
[...] (just listen to the two songs on the front page of the band’s website for proof). And while some people might not like that comparison, the fact remains that it gives you a pretty good idea what [...]